> Gabriel offers the examples of the adoption of C over Lisp, Unix over Lisp machines and VMS, and x86 over reduced instruction set computers as examples of technically worse solutions defeating more elegant ones by arriving to market first.
Even (especially?) as a person that appreciates Lisp, Lisp losing this fight twice is kind of funny.
Wonder if it’s going to happen an nth time with Guix vs Nix
Jank, a Clojure dialect, is playing in the same field:
> Where jank differs from Clojure JVM is that its host is C++ on top of an LLVM-based JIT. This allows jank to offer the same benefits of REPL-based development while being able to seamlessly reach into the native world and compete seriously with JVM's performance.
More expensive and less out-of-the-box software, but straight to the point on device ownership/what kind of software you can run, fewer strings attached.
Have you tried the PineNote yourself? It $400 and says that it's "aimed at Linux developers with an extensive knowledge of embedded systems and/or experience with mobile Linux." The community provided firmware they link for it hasn't been updated in over a year.
The Kobos don't limit what you can do with them either, you can sideload alternative e-reader software like KOReader that improves on the built-in reader functionality.
I have a PineNote but also (had a Remarkable 1 a while ago) a Remarkable2 and RM Pro. I also gifted a PocketBook Verse Pro and installed Koreader on it.
Basically if you want a "product" to use right now and still want to tinker, RM gives you ssh access to a system you can tinker with. RM2 has the best community support for now though.
PineNote works... but yes you will have to be ready to tinker. It's heavy and think but powerful, all the way to having a browser, audio, microSD, etc.
Meanwhile the PocketBook Verse Pro just works, no tinkering, but also tiny and not get for sketches IMHO.
Exactly, if you don't enjoy sketching concepts, think via diagrams or need to write in order to think then a PockerBook is good enough.
If, like me, you clarify your thoughts by physically writing (not typing) or sketching, then the ability to do so without distraction, moving a piece of text of the page, changing the position of a box in a complex diagram... then it's definitely worth the price IMHO.
I have a pine note. It lives up to that description. It's "fine", but I like to use it as an e ink laptop (well terminal with occasional other uses) with a bluetooth keyboard. I don't know that I would even want to start on using it as an ebook reader. It's bulky / heavy, and just doesn't match my kobo. I imagine asking it to do DRM ebooks would just be a non-starter.
I tried to turn a kobo into an eink terminal, and basically failed at getting it to the state I wanted it to be in, so the pine note is nice, but as a plug and play ereader it would be a hard sell for me.
I don't really push it. A couple of hours is all I really ask of it, and I get it.
I feel like it's not great given what I'm asking of it, and that it's an eink display. This is just vibes because I play on it like a few hours a week. I think I'd be very uncertain about getting a real work day out of it as an ssh client.
> More expensive and less out-of-the-box software, but straight to the point on device ownership/what kind of software you can run, fewer strings attached.
This note was in the original comment, did you read it? The fact that it is $400 (more expensive) and has less out of the box software is literally mentioned to alert people to that.
> The Kobos don't limit what you can do with them either, you can sideload alternative e-reader software like KOReader that improves on the built-in reader functionality.
This is patently false, the latest Kobo Libra Color is using secure boot which completely locks out custom development:
The point is to buy hardware that is built for you to freely modify and fully own, from the start.
My post was to make sure everyone knew the PineNote was an option, because I certainly did not know it until someone on HN made me aware.
Could you maybe make your point more concrete? Are you attempting to completely dissuade people from using the PineNote because it may not be easy to side load apps to it on hacker news?. Obviously different people have different propensities to do hacking, and some may not be able to afford the PineNote due to how expensive it is, but it's not clear what the goal of your comment was.
If your goal was "invest in Kobo instead of PineNote", I disagree with that. I'm not interested in investing (whether money or time) in an ecosystem that is just going to rug pull me eventually, over nickels and dimes.
BTW for those who agree, another great option is XTeink -- very hackable, and I've bought one myself:
Thanks for the link on mobileread. I was not aware of current development in direction of secure boot / chain of trust.
Not OP, but when I was looking for an e-reader, I looked up the Pinenote. I could not find easily a lot of information on its software state. I could find a lot on Kobo hacking. I notably found https://anarc.at/hardware/tablet/kobo-clara-hd/ and this motives me to get a second hand Clara HD for less than 100$. It was way cheaper than starting with 400$ and unknown software state.
> > The Kobos don't limit what you can do with them either, you can sideload alternative e-reader software like KOReader that improves on the built-in reader functionality.
> This is patently false, the latest Kobo Libra Color is using secure boot which completely locks out custom development
Your "patently false" is not true. There are nuances here that you are glossing over or ignoring.
Yes, the Kobo Libra Color uses secure boot.
But, you can still get root and install KOReader on it.
What is "custom development" if you mean "boot my own operating system" because, then yes. But the 90+% of the Kobo hacking community has never meant that.
For most folks in the community "custom development" means being able to install/side-load applications like Plato and KOReader alongside the existing Kobo/Nickel software.
Yea, I agree it sucks that the new Kobo uses secureboot, but it was never an open development platform. I feel for the quill-os folks, that sucks. I'm glad they found a home with the PN as they won't get a rugpull.
But the Kobo is still a system where you can trivially get root on it without having to jailbreak or otherwise exploit a vulnerability.
And +1 for the xteink x4 (though if you're rabidly against manufactures locking down their devices, you should look at the recent xteink developments where they are only releasing unlocked devices to the western market.)
I hadn't heard of the Pinenote before looking at your comment, so I looked at the site and saw some things that made it seem unfit for purpose as an ereader. I made my comment because I was interested in hearing your impressions if you were using it as a daily driver.
> The point is to buy hardware that is built for you to freely modify and fully own, from the start.
Personally I view stuff like this as a nice-to-have, not a must-have. If it means I can't have an interface where I can buy books and then download them to my ereader, or I can't have an iphone app where I can read books and have my progress synced between my ereader and my phone, or it's unstable, or the battery life isn't good, then I would rather go with the Kobo. I understand that different people have different priorities, but those are mine. Stuff like this is why I'm interested in hearing more detailed information about what exactly the tradeoffs are for going with something like the Pinenote.
> This is patently false, the latest Kobo Libra Color is using secure boot which completely locks out custom development:
I think you can still sideload KOReader on them, but that's a shame that they're making it harder to replace the stock OS entirely. I hadn't heard about that prior to now so thanks for bringing that up. I only have a Sage I bought a few years ago.
> I hadn't heard of the Pinenote before looking at your comment, so I looked at the site and saw some things that made it seem unfit for purpose as an ereader. I made my comment because I was interested in hearing your impressions if you were using it as a daily driver.
I updated my original comment to include some more personal blogs with first-hand accounts. They're not mine but worth linking to for others!
I haven't bought a PineNote yet, but it's probably going to be my choice for that size of Tablet. I opted for a Xteink instead and have been very happy with it.
> Personally I view stuff like this as a nice-to-have, not a must-have. If it means I can't have an interface where I can buy books and then download them to my ereader, or I can't have an iphone app where I can read books and have my progress synced between my ereader and my phone, or it's unstable, or the battery life isn't good, then I would rather go with the Kobo. I understand that different people have different priorities, but those are mine. Stuff like this is why I'm interested in hearing more detailed information about what exactly the tradeoffs are for going with something like the Pinenote.
I agree that there are certainly a lot of sharp edges to less supported platforms. I just think I'd rather get a Boox (and deal with Android/Graphene) or PineNote over the Kobo over the long term. Then again, my usage of very simple -- maybe I just don't read as much/depend as much on the ereader to the extent that others do!
> I think you can still sideload KOReader on them, but that's a shame that they're making it harder to replace the stock OS entirely. I hadn't heard about that prior to now so thanks for bringing that up. I only have a Sage I bought a few years ago.
Ah yes, AFAICT what you're saying is correct -- sideloading apps is not an issue as far as I could find, it was just the inability to have custom firmware/OS.
I was very disappointed in this, and I generally see it as a step towards locking down that will only continue. Would love to be wrong though as I was very very convinced I wanted a Kobo Libra Color earlier).
People that are happy with the Kobos as they are (and the bundled software/services) I'm sure will be happy to keep buying though, I think the market is certainly big enough for that!
Amazing! Do you know if anyone tried to run this on a Sage?
After getting that Kobo I realized that my hyper specific reading needs require a web browser with extension support (in particular support for Yomitan or similar dictionaries; the built-in dictionary functions on e-readers are awful for most non-English languages even with custom dictionaries, and KOReader isn't any better in that regard)
I saw that video a few days ago. It's really neat tech, but I'm curious what people are using the small external monitors for. I'm a big e-ink fan and really want to buy one because it's neat tech, but I can't come up with a use case where it makes sense for me. Any time I'm using a laptop on a desk, ideally I would want a larger monitor so I don't have to keep looking down (hurts your neck). If I'm lying down or on the couch, I would want a standalone device so I don't have to deal with the cords sticking out of the monitor or being tethered to a computer. I know portable e-ink displays have been a thing for nearly a decade at this point, so there must be a reason why people are buying them. If anyone reading this has one, what do you use it for?
I mean, it’s expensive, huge, and potentially unstable; not exactly what I’d want to read in bed at night.
The Pine projects are necessary and well-motivated, but the PineNote doesn’t strike me as a reader’s device, maybe a hacker’s or someone that wants an e-ink tablet.
This is awesome! How reliable are kindle jailbreaks/avoiding updates, etc?
Have opted for other devices like the xteink (or a boox in the future) due to what seemed like a relatively small ecosystem around “aftermarket” kindle modifications.
The kindle would be a great option if it could be reliably jailbroken and loaded with custom software
Jailbreaks will be overridden on modern Kindle firmwares unless you install an additional extension to prevent updates.
I use the "renameotabin" extension and enable Wi-Fi from time to time to load books from FTP via Koreader. It has been 3 years since I jailbroke it, and there have been no resets for me.
Depending on your firmware version, most jailbreak guides will have you either create an empty directory with the same name as the OTA firmware file (causing any OTA downloads to fail) or install an extension called `renameotabin` which renames the binaries responsible for performing the update, rendering them inaccessible.
This is a great point. Back when I was checking I think I was underwhelmed by the customization ecosystem for kobos but now I’m not sure what was stopping me/made me reconsider.
Upon further inspection there is also the Pine Note!
I've been using one of the Kobo Clara devices running Plato (built in Rust) for a few years now. Other than a couple of minor bugs early on, I've had no issues.
It's largely the exact device that I want my book reader to be:
* Small and lightweight
* Nice epaper screen
* No need for an internet connection whatsoever
* Natively understands EPUB
* Just reads books -- no ads, no markets, no apps, no upsell
The built-in Kobo firmware isn't great. IIRC Rakuten/Walmart hoover up and sell your reading habits, etc. Hence one reason why I don't connect mine to the internet (running Plato probably fixes this, but restarting the device doesn't immediately go into Plato). The device is also weirdly sluggish with the default Kobo software, and much faster in Plato.
I'm done with the kindle ecosystem, except for one last jailbroken kindle that I use for reading, but once that dies it's nice to know options.
Open source software, open (to the owners) with default configs, open ecosystems, repairability, hackability, open hardware are all factors I look for across multiple devices now. routers & wifi, readers, phones, headphones, laptops, keyboards, etc..
They don't always have to hit every element - but the more they cover, the more likely I am to track and purchase them when the time comes.
That’s right — I’m assuming you mean OS threads when you write “actual threads”.
Stackless Coroutines are currently supported for p3, stackful coroutines AKA “virtual threads” are coming (which I assume is what you mean by green threads), and “actual threads” as in OS threads are not currently a goal for the ABI AFAIK —- would you mind explaining some uses you were thinking of?
That’s a great question and something we’re going to have to figure out going forward on the JS side.
What I can say now is that the first version will probably be single threaded stack switching coroutines, and the model that seems to fit most naturally in my head is virtual threads mapping to some worker thread n in a premade pool.
It seems we're at a bit of a crossroads. It seems like the world both needs:
- Permissionless email (i.e. for agents, empowered users who can program now)
- Pervasive email allow listing
Wonder if these can both exist at the same time, i.e. having a "public" email that is read first by AI (let's imagine we're in a world where prompt injections weren't so possible) and heavily filtered, along with one that is private and allow-list gated (via some easier-than-gpg-to-use identity marker).
https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-full-source-bootstrap-...
reply