I can unequivocally claim that Victor receives at least two orders of magnitude more social media engagement, while Lean likely has 4-5 more magnitudes of actual users.
Serious users of Lean simply have no need or reason to star the repository.
I’m not being “passive aggressive” with an “unfounded dismissal posing as a question”
The person I am responding to made a SPECIFIC claim when they said, “A complete implementation have been released”
They then ASKED, “how is that not a substantiation?”
Uploading code does NOT substantiate anything.
The code must been executed, tested, analyzed and/or verified in order to substantiate ANYTHING.
We are in limbo because MOST people are JUST seeing the code now. Almost nobody has evaluated it.
BTW, I got the Discord announcement BEFORE I saw the HN announcement (Because I’m not a hater or a bully) and I started looking at the Lean code as well as the TypeScript compiler.
Have YOU been evaluating it? Do you actually have an informed opinion, or are you here to fight the bullies?
I think it’s also worth noting that Barry Jay has a particularly strong vantage point for unearthing this particular foundational candidate. First, his advisor was Joachim Lambek, who’s responsible for adding Category Theory in the Curry-Howard-Lambek correspondence.
If one looks at Barry’s body of work over his lifetime, it’s no surprise it would culminate into an elegantly beautiful system capable of self-reflection.
>I think it’s also worth noting that Barry Jay has a particularly strong vantage point for unearthing this particular foundational candidate. First, his advisor was Joachim Lambek, who’s responsible for adding Category Theory in the Curry-Howard-Lambek correspondence.
Curry-Howard-Lambek correspondence is a very important point, I'm glad you brought it up!
>If one looks at Barry’s body of work over his lifetime, it’s no surprise it would culminate into an elegantly beautiful system capable of self-reflection.
From the paper: "The operator [Triangle] (pronounced "node") is a ternary operator)..."
I wonder if Tree Calculus (and/or binary trees in general!) could be related to, and/or applied to the Ternary Tau and/or the Balanced Phinary number systems:
Sometimes you want to give certain people an incentive to not be your customers because your company would be entirely better off if they were someone else’s customer.
This is why discounts are often a bad way to get customers, you don't want the customers who (only) go for discounts, they're often worse (and not just their sensitivity to prices).
I’m in Ashburn Virginia and I literally live less than 1 mile from the highest concentration of data centers in the world. People are buying townhomes homes built across the street from data centers.
What you might not understand is Loudoun heavily regulates data centers in this area. All infrastructure improvements needed to power and cool the data centers are paid by service providers. The water used to cool our data centers is sourced from our wastewater which goes through a special treatment facility that was funded by the tax revenue from the data centers.
Our property taxes are lower because the tax revenue from the data centers makes up for the difference. We have excellent schools and fantastic recreation facilities.
Oh yeah, our electricity rates and water rates are competitively low too.
I’m not here to champion data centers, nor am I claiming this is what normally happens when a data center is built.
I’m trying to point out that when they are TAXED and REGULATED, they can actually be a boon the local community.
The problem you’re seeing in these other communities are local governments bending over backwards to bring in data centers to the expense of the local population. They’re paying higher rates for water and electricity because the data center wasn’t forced to pay for infrastructure upgrades upfront, so those costs get passed on to the public.
I don’t mind the data centers. I see them every day and walk past them. They don’t emit pollution and they’re quiet and I’m not interested in moving away. I like it here.
I'd say the underlying problem here is the general lack of accountability. We have a breakdown in the social contract of the idea that there is any kind of justice to be had by the common person. This manifests in concerns both about the physical data center themselves - high pitched whine from cooling fans that everybody seems powerless to stop, and natural gas power plants snuck in under the auspices of being "temporary" - and also concerns about the displacement of humans by "AI", for which there is also zero belief that there could be political will to stop it against the wishes of the corporate class.
I'm sitting about 10 feet away from my own rack, and yet I'm happy that my municipality just passed a datacenter moratorium. Why? Because once these things are built, there appears to be nothing the community can do to force them to fix problems (on pain of shutdown) or otherwise regulate them once their externalities become apparent. So the only rational thing to do is to say no from the outset.
You’re right. The problem is most local governments do not know how to enforce accountability when working with organizations that want to build data centers.
If your local government doesn’t already employ competent people that can properly regulate and oversee the infrastructure impact of a data center, they will be overwhelmed by experts who know how to steamroll them. Passing a moratorium is the right thing for that community to do because it’s clear their local government isn’t up to the task of keeping a giant corporation (that employs armies of experts) accountable.
I'd say that's half the problem. The other half is the regulatory environment causes the risk to land completely on the municipality (ie the community). If a datacenter gets approved, and then turns out to have something like subjectively objectionable noise, the datacenter will point to the approval containing no restrictions on noise, or engineering figures showing that it technically meets some requirements. At which point the municipality will basically be prevented from creating new regulation to prohibit the offending behavior. It's like if the kid next door got a loud car stereo, so you worked to get the city to pass a noise ordinance. But then you were told that your neighbor specifically could continue blasting his music since he bought the stereo system before the ordinance was passed.
And that's before getting into federal nonsense where if a community does successfully reign in a datacenter, there is a chance the operator could appeal to the federal regime to override the local laws (as we're hearing about with the on-site natural gas power plants and whatnot). It's best to just not allow any kind of foothold in the first place.
Honestly, I don’t think Marty’s “decision” to use generative AI to storyboard will even become a thing that ages.
But let’s say it doesn’t “age well”. What would that mean? Would it mean we’ve turned into a society that looks down on people on using AI tools at ANY stage in a creative process?
You can think of a calculus as a mathematical system one can use to define the essential computational basis for how a programming language or a runtime works mathematically.
Lambda calculus is often the foundation for functional programming languages, but lambda calculus is also a mathematical system you can calculate things with pencil and paper.
What makes lambda calculus interesting is it’s a relatively simple mathematical system where EVERYTHING is defined as a function. I’m serious. Imagine a programming language where you don’t have numbers, bools, if statements, while loops, gotos, etc.
You only have functions. All functions accept one argument (a function) and they always return functions.
Tree calculus is like lambda calculus, but it takes the idea a bit further. Not only can tree calculus do all this stuff where you create functions from other functions, tree calculus is fundamentally capable of reflecting on itself in a way that allows it to easily understand and transform its own interpreter.
In other words, if you base a programming language on tree calculus, your programming language or interpreter will allow you to create programs that can reflect on and transform other programs just like it was any other piece of data.
It’s pretty remarkable, especially when you find out how simple a core tree calculus based language can be implemented.
I can unequivocally claim that Victor receives at least two orders of magnitude more social media engagement, while Lean likely has 4-5 more magnitudes of actual users.
Serious users of Lean simply have no need or reason to star the repository.
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